QualityTyme.net Rare & Fine Timepieces... When it comes to Rolex... We wrote the Book on it!! The Rolex Report: An Unauthorized Reference Book for the Rolex Enthusiast. Need Assistance Placing an Order?
Facebook Instagram Twitter Pintrest Better Business Bureau Yelp Google Plus
A Leader in the Online Watch Community Since 1999
Offering an outstanding selection of
Modern and Vintage, Preowned, as well as
"Unworn" Rare & Fine Timepieces.
We like Buying watches (almost)
as much as we like selling them.

Oh yeah, AND we LOVE Trades!
Want the absolute TOP DOLLAR?
We'll take your watch on consignment
to ensure you get ALL THE MONEY!
We offer Expert Watch Repair
& Restoration Services on Rolex and
other premium brand watches.
Educational Content:
Rolex Lectures
Rolex or Replica?
Watch FAQs
Watch Articles
Watch Histories
Serial Numbers
Additional Resources:
Terms of Business
Web Links
Photo Gallery
Amazon Books
Horological News
Event Calendar
Brand Accessories Watch Winders Parts & Accessories Watch Tools Watch Books
Parts & Accessories: We carry a full line of Custom Watch Accessories... Dials, Bezel, Straps, Bracelets...
Brand Accessories: We offer Genuine Watch Brand Accessories from Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, Omega, Cartier, Panerai...
Watch Winders: We are an Official Distributor of Orbita Watch Winders. Watch Books: We are the Author/Publisher of The Rolex Report, as well as offering dozens of other watch-related publications.
Watch Tools: We carry an extensive selection of Watch Tools and Supplies.
QualityTyme Rare & Fine Timepieces specializes in exceptional modern and vintage wristwatches. We offer a unique selection of watch accessories,
watch winders, and horological books, as well as providing Expert Watch Repair and Restoration Services that are second to none. We also publish
The Rolex Report, a series of critically acclaimed reference books used by thousands of watch dealers, collectors and enthusiasts around the world.
View Shopping Cart
QualityTyme.net is PROUDLY independent and NOT AFFILIATED WITH ROLEX USA.

The MACV-SOG Submariner: A Vietnam-Era Rolex with Recon Special Forces Provenance...

By John E. Brozek

© InfoQuest Publishing, Inc., 2015

Website Article, Summer 2015

Return to Watch Articles Index...

We purchase watches on an almost daily basis, and over the years I've had the pleasure and honor of purchasing several highly sought after rare and fine timepieces...

Paul Newman Daytonas, Jean Claude Killy Datocompax, Steve McQueen Explorers, James Bond Submariners, Anti-Magnetique "Prisoner of War" watches, and America's Cup Presentation watches, as well as other memorable watches owned by celebrities and public figures with fascinating provenances, and equally colorful nomenclatures...

However, being a military veteran myself, and coming from a family with a history of military service (five uncles served in WWII from the South Pacific to the South of France, my father served during Korea, and a cousin served in Iraq & Afghanistan), I've become an avid military memorabilia collector. Thus, I always take special pride in purchasing watches with a military history, and while having a watch with any form of military provanance is nice, having the following documentation is something special.

The following watch was purchased from the original owner, a Vietnam War, Special Forces, Recon Team Leader. Not only does it have confirmed combat "experience", its owner is a confirmed war hero whose decorated actions took place the very day after he purchased the watch! Talk about perfect timing... no pun intended.

The watch was in rough shape when we got it, but after an extensive restoration process we are very happy with the outcome, and we hope you enjoy it as well. With that being said, I take great pleasure in sharing his story with you here.

John E. Brozek
QualityTyme Rare & Fine Timepieces

The Watch...

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner
Ref: 5513/0
SN: 1.78 Mil
Caseback Date Code: iv67
Dial: Meters First
Bracelet: Rolex Riveted Oyster, 7206/80
Bracelet Clasp Date Code: 1/69
Date of purchase: August 13, 1969
Place of purchase: Quan Loi PX, Vietnam

The Man...

Alex P. Saunders, Specialist Fourth Class, Special Forces

Saunders entered service on September 27, 1967, and served in the 5th Mobile Strike Force Command (AKA MIKE Force) (B-55) Special Weapons Platoon, from March 1, 1968 until June 1, 1968, where he operated the .50 CAL.

He then served as clerk in the 5th SFGA Hqs in Nha Trang, on an extension of his tour, until he became the regular 1-1 for 1LT Bob Bost's team[1], Spike Recon Team "Hatchet"... MACVSOG, Subgroup CCS, on May 1, 1969, and ran over 25 missions together.

It's worth mentioning that he came into MACVSOG shortly after Jerry Michael "Mad Dog" Shriver[2] was KIA on 24 April 1969.


Awarded the Bronze Star with V device (for Valor),
Army Commendation Medal with V device (for Valor),
South Vietnam 1969 (ACMV) Cambodia 1969 (BSV)
Purple Heart, WIA (Wounded in Action), August 14, 1969, Cambodia
Listed on the Special Forces "Roll of Honor"[3]
As well as being referenced several times in the book, "Secret Green Beret Commandos in Cambodia."

The Mission...

Military Assistance Command, Vietnam – Studies and Observations Group (MACV-SOG) was a highly classified, multi-service United States special operations unit which conducted covert unconventional warfare operations prior to and during the Vietnam War. Established on 24 January 1964, the unit conducted strategic reconnaissance missions in Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam), the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam), Laos, and Cambodia; carried out the capture of enemy prisoners, rescued downed pilots, and conducted rescue operations to retrieve allied prisoners of war throughout Southeast Asia; and conducted clandestine agent team activities and psychological operations against country.[4]

The 5th Special Forces Group was divided into 3 field commands, as follows: CCN (Command and Control North), CCC (Command and Control Central), and CCS (Command and Control South). They each contained SPIKE Recon Teams (RT), which usually consisted of 3 US SF personel and up to 9 indigenous personnel. Their primary mission was strategic reconnaissance gathering.

HATCHET forces, were of platoon size and consisted of 5 US SF and about 30 indigenous personnel. These reaction forces were much less clandestine than Recon Teams, and the most agressive. They were used for ambushes as well as reinforcing Recon Teams.

Two or more Hatchet Forces combined were termed HAVOC or HORNET force, and SOGs full companies were called SLAM companies (Search, Location, and Annihilation Mission).

CCN with Hqs in DaNang was the largest, and conducted operations in southern Laos and northern Cambodia. It was comprised of approximately 35 Reconnaissance Teams named after US States, Snakes and Spiders (i.e. Adder, Alaska, Anaconda, Asp, Bushmaster, Cobra, Connecticut, etc...) CCC was based in Kontum, and conducted operations in the same areas as CCN. It was comprised of approximately 25 Reconnaissance Teams named after US States. (i.e. Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, etc...) CCS was the smallest and operated out of Ban Me Thuot, and conducted operations in south Vietnam and Cambodia. It was comprised of approximately 12 Reconnaissance Teams named mostly after tools. (i.e. Fork, Hatchet, Lightning, Plane, Pike, Spike, Trowel, etc...)

The Medals...

The Bronze Star Medal was established by Executive Order 9419, 4 February 1944 (superseded by Executive Order 11046, 24 August 1962, as amended by Executive Order 13286, 28 February 2003).[7] Initially, the medal was retroactively awarded to each member of the Armed Forces of the United States who displayed exemplary conduct in ground combat, thus being awarded due to their service, and not originally intended for a single act of heroism. A year after it was approved, the "V" device was introduced to designate a single act of heroism or valor from those who purely served in the infantry in combat during the war. The Bronze Star was awarded 395,380 times during WWII, and 30,359 in Korea. At that time, the Army did not appear to track how many were awarded for Valor. The first war to track the "V" device was Vietnam with only 170,626 awarded for Valor and 549,343 for Achievement/Service.[8]

The following excerpt from the citation for Saunder's BSMV, as shown below, gives a description of the mission action: "SP4 Saunders distinguished himself by heroism on 08/14/69, while serving as the assistant team leader on a 12-man long-range recon team inserted deep into enemy held territory on a highly classified mission. SP4 Saunders team made contact with a large enemy force. In the first few minutes of a furious firefight, the team suffered on killed and two wounded. One of the wounded was himself. Without regard to his own personal safety, he crawled through intense enemy fire to drag the other wounded man to safety. SP4 Saunders continued his act of bravery by exposing himself again and again placing and detonating claymore mines and explosives on selected trees (to make an LZ) to allow his team to be exfiltered by McGuire rigs. While completing the exfiltration plan, he crawled within a few feet of enemy lines, and took documents and weapons from the dead enemy killed earlier." (Per 5th SFGA Hq GO # 1733, dtd 10/25/69.)[6]

This rare photo shows Saunders team being extracted from the jungle by McGuire rigs on 8/14/69. [Photo by Mike Ash]

In addition to the awards, Chief SOG sent his "Atta-boy:" "Subject Outstanding Performance. RT Hatchet is to be commended for its courage and determination in successfully accomplishing its extremely difficult mission in the (blank) target area. The professional competence displayed by the RT in its crossing of the (blank) river, coupled with its courage and skill under fire, constitute a truly outstanding performance of duty. Well done."[6]

The Provenance...

Saunders purchased the Submariner on August 13th, 1969, at the PX in Quan Loi, RVN, just before going on a recon mission in Cambodia (a classified area at the time), with the 5th Special Forces Operations Augmentation (SOA), subgroup CCS out of Ba Me Thuot, RVN.

He specifically remembers this date because he was shot on that mission (the next day during extraction), on August 14th, 1969.

Saunders received both the Purple Heart, as well as the Bronze Star with "V" devise (for Valor) for his actions during that mission.

He paid $234.50 for the watch. He remembers this because, "It was a whole months take home for a Buck Sergeant at that time."

He also recalls, "I also remember we had to cover the stainless steel band and dials when in the bush to prevent being seen by the 'other folks' looking to do bad things to us!"

He goes on to say, "A 5-man MACV-SOG Recon Team has some serious capabilities in the field, but also a few limitations due to its small size..."

"...The day after we infilled via helicopter into our target area we got some heavy contact and had a bit of an issue getting out. During this goings on I had my watch band popped off and I lost the Rolex for a while. I remember digging around in the brush looking for it while we were in contact. I also remember catching hell from the other guys in my unit. In retrospect maybe I should have paid a little more attention to the bad guys and less to my investment in the Rolex. Years later not so much..."

"After another year running Recon with our little outfit, CCS out of Ba Me Thuot, RVN. I returned to CONUS a little worse for wear but still walking upright and able to use all my pieces. Thanks to many friends and great support from our helicopter support."

Alex P. Saunders
Special Forces, RET

Some Statistics to ponder...

MACV-SOG ran approximately 3000 missions into Laos, Cambodia, and North Vietnam during the Vietnam War.

SOG Members operated in the most dangerous conditions imagineable, and were always outnumbered (frequently as much as 100 to 1).

Virtually ever RT member was wounded at one time or another while running their missions, which resulted in (unofficially) 53 MIA and 103 dead team members. This meant their casualty rate was literally over 100% in many instances, and the fatality rate at over 70%, yet there was never a shortage of volunteers! (These numbers did not include South Vietnamese, Nung, and Montagnard team members.)

However they were also directly or indirectly responsible for as many as 158 enemy killed for every one of their own dead.

Of the 17 Special Forces soldiers awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor, 5 were MACV-SOG members.

MACV-SOG's very existance was not even acknowledged until the 1980s.

This video may not be visible on some mobile devices.

Footnotes & References...

1. The term 1-1 (or one-one) refers to his position within the Recon Team. The Team Leader is classified as 1-0 (or one-zero), then the assistant team leader is 1-1, then 1-2, 1-3, etc...

2. SFC Jerry M. "Mad Dog" Shriver was a legendary Green Beret. He was an exploitation platoon leader with Command and Control South, MACV-SOG Military Assistance Command, Vietnam Studies and Observation Group).

3. http://www.specialforcesroh.com/showthread.php?51148-Saunders-Alex-P

4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Assistance_Command,_Vietnam_%E2%80%93_Studies_and_Observations_Group

5. https://army.togetherweserved.com/army/servlet/tws.webapp.WebApp?cmd=PublicUnitProfile&type=Unit&ID=55370

6. Lindsey, Fred S.(2012). Secret Green Beret Commandos in Cambodia. AuthorHouse Publishing. ISBN 978-1-4772-7308-1

7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Star_Medal

8. https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/military-misconceptions-the-bronze-star-medal

Additional Watch Articles:



Publish Date:


The Paul Newman Daytona, An Unauthorized History... International Watchman Magazine August, 2003. John E. Brozek
The James Bond Submariner, An Unauthorized History... International Watchman Magazine October, 2003. John E. Brozek
The Vindication Swim, Mercedes Gleitze and Rolex take the plunge and become world-renowned... International Watchman Magazine December, 2003. John E. Brozek
The History and Evolution of the Wristwatch... International Watchman Magazine January, 2004. John E. Brozek
Rolex or Replica? Some timely advice so you don't end up making a very expensive mistake... Chronos Magazine Winter 2003/2004. John E. Brozek
Replicas and Knock-Offs, are they legal?
(With award winning consumer reporter Michael Finney of KGO-TV in San Francisco.)
ABC 7 News KGO-TV February 26, 2004. John E. Brozek
Everest, A Pinnacle of Achievement for Rolex... International Watchman Magazine April, 2004. John E. Brozek
30 Year Love Affair, The Paul Newman Daytona... Goodwood Magazine 2005 Issue. John E. Brozek
The POTUS Patek: A Rare Look Inside a Presidential Timepiece... Website Photo Article Summer 2013. John E. Brozek
Defending the Cup, The 1964 America's Cup Presentation Submariner... Website Photo Article Summer 2014. John E. Brozek
The MACVSOG Submariner: A Vietnam-Era Rolex with Recon Special Forces Provenance... Website Photo Article Summer 2015. John E. Brozek
But / Sell / Trade / Service: Rolex ● Tudor ● Cellini ● Patek Philippe ● Cartier ● Omega ● Franck Muller ● Panerai ● IWC ● Tag Heuer ● Breitling ● Jaeger-LeCoultre ● Breguet ● Chronoswiss
Oyster Perpetual ● Air-King ● Date ● Datejust ● Day-Date ● Turn-O-Graph ● Submariner ● Sea-Dweller ● Deepsea ● GMT-Master ● Yacht-Master ● Explorer ● Daytona ● Milgauss
World Time ● Calatrava ● Annual Calendar ● Perpetual Calendar ● Gondolo ● Aquanaut ● Nautilus ● Elipse ● Pagoda ● Twenty-4 ● Sky Moon Tourbillion ● Grand Complications
Speed Master ● Sea Master ● Constellation ● Planet Ocean ● De Ville ● Royal Oak Offshore ● Luminor Marina ● Radiomir ● Portuguese ● Portofino ● Pasha ● Roadster ● Must 21
Santos ● La Dona ● Tank Francaise ● Avenger ● Bentley ● Chronomat ● Montbrillant ● Navitimer ● Superocean ● Opus ● Aquaracer ● Carrera ● Monaco
Expert Watch Repair & Restoration Services.
We are an Official Dealer of ORBITA WATCHWINDERS.
Web QualityTyme.net

Copyright © 1999-2016 InfoQuest Publishing, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
MEMBER NAWCC, AWCI, IWJG, NPA & WWT | NOT AFFILIATED WITH ROLEX USA, nor any of its associated companies.

QualityTyme Rare & Fine Timepieces
100 2ND AVE SOUTH, Suite 104N, Saint Petersburg, FL 33701
Usually Open Monday-Friday, 10:30AM-5PM (Appointments Reccomended, Hours Sometimes Vary)

Terms of Use | Copyright Notice____Privacy Statement | Webmaster